Three-player perfect information games are usually undetermined

Recently, I gave the talk Undeterminacy and choice (Indeterminación y elección), at the XVII Colombian Mathematical Congress, in Cali. Slides can be found at my talks page.

The talk addressed the results of my recent paper on with Richard Ketchersid, mentioned in my previous entry, and some extensions, about which I expect to be posting soon. Afterwards, somebody asked me how much of the theory of determinacy can be extended to three-player (or more) perfect information games. Not much.

The following easy example was suggested by Richard Ketchersid: There is an undetermined one-move game where players I, II, III play 0 or 1, with I playing first, then II, and finally III. To see this, say that and are the numbers played, and that:

Player I wins iff

Player II wins iff and

Player III wins if

(One may think of this game as a perfect information version of paper-rock-scissors.) I imagine this observation is ancient, and would be grateful for a reference.

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2 Responses to Three-player perfect information games are usually undetermined

This is a very interesting question (and I really want to see what other answers you receive). I do not know of any general metatheorems ensuring that what you ask (in particular, about consistency strength) is the case, at least under reasonable conditions. However, arguments establishing the proof theoretic ordinal of a theory $T$ usually entail this. You […]

This is false; take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytic_set for a quick introduction. For details, look at Kechris's book on Classical Descriptive Set Theory. There you will find also some information on the history of this result, how it was originally thought to be true, and how the discovery of counterexamples led to the creation of desc […]

This is open. In $L(\mathbb R)$ the answer is yes. Hugh has several proofs of this, and it remains one of the few unpublished results in the area. The latest version of the statement (that I know of) is the claim in your parenthetical remark at the end. This gives determinacy in $L(\mathbb R)$ using, for example, a reflection argument. (I mentioned this a wh […]

A classical reference is Hypothèse du Continu by Waclaw Sierpiński (1934), available through the Virtual Library of Science as part of the series Mathematical Monographs of the Institute of Mathematics of the Polish Academy of Sciences. Sierpiński discusses equivalences and consequences. The statements covered include examples from set theory, combinatorics, […]

There is a new journal of the European Mathematical Society that seems perfect for these articles: EMS Surveys in Mathematical Sciences. The description at the link reads: The EMS Surveys in Mathematical Sciences is dedicated to publishing authoritative surveys and high-level expositions in all areas of mathematical sciences. It is a peer-reviewed periodical […]

You may be interested in the following paper: Lorenz Halbeisen, and Norbert Hungerbühler. The cardinality of Hamel bases of Banach spaces, East-West Journal of Mathematics, 2, (2000) 153-159. There, Lorenz and Norbert prove a few results about the size of Hamel bases of arbitrary infinite dimensional Banach spaces. In particular, they show: Lemma 3.4. If $K\ […]

You just need to show that $\sum_{\alpha\in F}\alpha^k=0$ for $k=0,1,\dots,q-2$. This is clear for $k=0$ (understanding $0^0$ as $1$). But $\alpha^q-\alpha=0$ for all $\alpha$ so $\alpha^{q-1}-1=0$ for all $\alpha\ne0$, and the result follows from the Newton identities.

Nice question. Let me first point out that the Riemann Hypothesis and $\mathsf{P}$-vs-$\mathsf{NP}$ are much simpler than $\Pi^1_2$: The former is $\Pi^0_1$, see this MO question, and the assertion that $\mathsf{P}=\mathsf{NP}$ is a $\Pi^0_2$ statement ("for every code for a machine of such and such kind there is a code for a machine of such other kind […]

For brevity's sake, say that a theory $T$ is nice if $T$ is a consistent theory that can interpret Peano Arithmetic and admits a recursively enumerable set of axioms. For any such $T$, the statement "$T$ is consistent" can be coded as an arithmetic statement (saying that no number codes a proof of a contradiction from the axioms of $T$). What […]

All I know about it is a paper by Benedikt on infinite games with more than two players:

Click to access PP-2003-19.text.pdf

It will be appear in Journal of Applied Logic. But I suspect that this is not the oldest reference for the undeterminacy.

Thanks! The paper looks interesting, and I didn’t know anything about this area.